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Old Apr 20, 2008, 11:16 AM // 11:16   #241
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I play for my way of game-play. We're a diverse group of players here, everyone has different ways of playing and what they like. Sure, sometimes we want things easier but we have to also consider how doing that will effect other people. I don't like farming, just like GW GF doesn't like farming. I don't like the idea of having to play real world money for in-game items or gold. I already payed for GW, a game that isn't pay to play per month and I'd hope that it stays that way. Not into a buy Anet gold just to be able to play the game and not get drowned out by gold buyers. My way of play is playing through the campaigns, picking everything up and selling excess. I have a minipet fetish, not because some may be considered 'leet loot', but because that's what I enjoy and makes me happy. You and your wife like watching the little numbers and I like watching cute little mini's wandering around or chasing me as I do missions/quests. There will always be an aspect of the game that we don't like, but if we want to have something, or complete a goal we'll just have to occasionally break out of our mold and play a different aspect of the game that will get us what we want. Someone else suggested focusing on just one character in order to save money, but I tend to hop around with different characters and replaying content. All those commendations, coins, etc can be saved and traded for scrolls or kits that sell for a nice profit. Selling mats. Power-trading. There are ways to make gold without investing a lot of a players time, but I suppose the trick is finding something you enjoy enough to do and not be repulsed by it.
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 11:16 AM // 11:16   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ModTerrik
Which as I said, you avoid your hyperinflation by controlling supply. Either by limiting the amount of gold that can be bought total (you get on a waiting list to purchase 100k for $50 and within a week you have it) or by pricing it high enough so that only the rich can afford it (much like Bill Gates Leer Jet).
The examples you give will have a good chance of controlling the severity of inflation caused by selling gold but will not in fact eliminate the inflation. By the very nature of what you are discussing Anet would be adding gold to the market without necessarily taking anything out. Gold would become more plentiful and so worth less in the GW economy.

The basic approach being suggested here is one that has been tried in the real world with disastrous results...We don't have enough money to pay our bills ? Just print more !

Attempts to control the fall-out from the implementation of this suggestion will (most likely) run afoul of a couple of problems:

1) where do you draw the line ? If the goal is to create an absolutely fair situation by allowing someone who doesn't have the time to farm for gold to purchase the gold from Anet while keeping the cost of the gold up to (hopefully) minimize the impact on the economy then what about those without much time or sufficient real world money to afford high gold prices. If fairness is in fact an argument for gold selling then the prices would have to be kept low in order for it to be achieved. If gold prices are low then any attempt to control inflation will fail.

2) Not only those without sufficient time to farm will buy gold if it becomes "legal". Farmers will likely find prices going up enough to warrant at least an occasional gold purchase themselves. If they are already farming as much as the can or are willing to to achieve the levels of income they desire then the devaluation of their current stocks of cash will drive them into the gold purchasing market as well.

3) Reducing the value of something that another has worked very hard for is actually less fair than saying that you have to spend alot of time farming in order to get a particular item in game. If you increase the amount of gold on the market then the gold already on the marked is devalued. In other words everything that the farming community has worked hard for will actually be worth less. They will be able to buy less with the gold and ectos that they have applied countless hours and ingenuity to acquire. In my opinion it is far less fair to take from them than to say that you should have work as hard (or put in as much time) as they did in order to have the same reward.

Please note that we are speaking about in game situations and so I am referring to in game work (or time) and am not at all deriding the real world work you do to accumulate the real world money which you wish to spend on GW gold.
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 11:17 AM // 11:17   #243
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Selling Ingame gold would inflate the ingame economy. Pure and simple.

Besides, wearing an armor or weapon that you really have worked for yourself, should make it all the better.
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 11:20 AM // 11:20   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoriaOrc
That's similar to #1 (although not as bad for gold-buyers I'll admit). But it has the same problems. Either the limit is very low, and the economy is protected but gold buying only works for "the basics," or the limit is high enough that it takes a few weeks, but the inflation still kicks in.

Number crunching for this policy:
500,000 active GW players (this is a conservative estimate, considering 5m copies sold as of February)
20k cap/week/player
10% players buy gold
-----------------
1,000,000,000 new gold that will be spent into the economy in one week.
Wow. Thank you for that. That's perfect. I seriously doubt that it would drastically affect the economy, especially when you take into account that it would be split up over all regions. Looks like 20k a week is the magic number!
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 11:21 AM // 11:21   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnidragon42
I'd like to say something about this statement. Learning about skill timing, chaining certain spells, aggro patterns, and baiting interrupts certainly are skills you gain while killing the same mobs over and over.
Guild Wars isn't about the same aggro patterns or same build of chained skills or same situations. An experienced player is one that can adapt to constantly changing situations, not one who performs the same area with perfect consistency. A robot can do that.
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 11:22 AM // 11:22   #246
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Originally Posted by GW GF
Honestly, money or no money, I don't really care how they do it.. I just would love to see MMORPG's (especially GW) more accessible for all.

It would be so cool if more working adults would play online.. it would mean more fun and larger variety of games for all.

However, until MMORPGS figure out a way to not take up so much darn time, the masses will never be able to play. SO if Anet really wants to strike it big, they will find a way to make everyone happy. I think that many valid concerns and suggestions have been brought up.

Please please please Anet... please find a way that I can enjoy a MMORPG that appeals to everone and doesn't take up too much time to advance. Heck, I can log off my computer and go play a game of Rock Band online but I like GW better.

Just my 2 cents
I couldn't agree more! ANet should learn the lesson of the Wii and focus on the mainstream.
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 11:24 AM // 11:24   #247
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The main problem is that you're trying to achieve "Fairness". Nothing is fair. GW is a game where item acquisition is determined by ingame effort. Real life is a game where item acquisition is determined by working at a job or exploiting the welfare system. If I could acquire a $500,000 house by spending say, 5 mil ingame, would that be fair to people who take 30 year mortgages to buy one?


Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarre
Guild Wars isn't about the same aggro patterns or same build of chained skills or same situations. An experienced player is one that can adapt to constantly changing situations, not one who performs the same area with perfect consistency. A robot can do that.
I don't know about you, but I've applied things I've learned farming to high end group pve, and also pvp. Everyone learns in different ways.

Last edited by Omnidragon42; Apr 20, 2008 at 11:30 AM // 11:30..
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 11:25 AM // 11:25   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoriaOrc
It would likely be the opposite. If they don't customize the items on creation, then some players would probably try to sell them on the market for gold (increasing supply that much means lowering costs). Even if they customize RMT items, then it will still lower demand (also lowering costs).

Of course, then they would have to assign fixed values to player-traded items. Easy enough for trader items, but if they want to sell weapons or weapon mods, then it means assigning prices to items that don't currently have a set in game price.
Very good point. Another one is simply this:

Many rare items such as minipets have a currency-like status in the game and are kept as a form of reserve cash by many players. Increasing their presence on the market in this fashion would essentially undermine the value of those items kept as investments.

To put it into a real world example that would hurt me and perhaps those wishing to spend real world money on GW gold..What would the value of Microsoft stock be if the company decided to just print more shares ? Of course they aren't legally able to do so but what if they could ? Individual shares would be worth fraction of what they are now. So too would go the value of GW valuables.
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 11:25 AM // 11:25   #249
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Time, sweat and blood are non transferable

Bank of Anet doesn't accept that type of monetary value!
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 11:26 AM // 11:26   #250
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GW would turn into Rich > Skill, Time rather than supposed Skill > Time.

My idea of where money ends up in an economy is in the hands of those who know how to use it well, which usually end up being the wealthy or the hoarders, and you're wanting to spend it, so I bet you're no hoarder. The only reason people would buy it is to spend it, and if they're spending it, it's going to end up in the hands of the already wealthy, and just destroy the economy more.

Plus, that's like GW saying, "We didn't like other people making money by selling in-game gold, so we decided to ban them all and do it ourselves!"
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 11:28 AM // 11:28   #251
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I think the people who want to buy gold in game are funny. If you have to buy items with real money to enjoy the game, then you're doing it wrong.
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 11:31 AM // 11:31   #252
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I herd ANet were against RMT...
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 11:34 AM // 11:34   #253
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Why should ANET cater more to the mainstream for a player's point of view? Cult classics are the some of the most celebrated games out there because instead of satisfying everyone a little bit they satisfy a few a lot. And for those casual players there's other games out there.
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 11:35 AM // 11:35   #254
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Quote:
However, until MMORPGS figure out a way to not take up so much darn time, the masses will never be able to play.
LMAO tell that to the 10 million subscribers of just WOW not mentioning the other millions playing Lineage, Lineage II, Final Fantasy, Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot. hahaha that is the most rediculous statement I've read on this site. "the masses will never be able to play" hahahahaha

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naylyn

Maybe if rather than purchasing gold players purchased the items directly inflation wouldn't occur.
Nope that won't work either because then you devalue the income of those people ingame who have worked to get these items for sale. So, you would be taking away their income to implement this. Nope, sorry, just nothing is going to work where you intergrate the outside world into the inside world. The inside world must work upon it's on economy and it's on limits and boundaries that the game creates not outside sources. No gold selling, no tricklein effect, no item/equipment selling of any kind outside the game. In other words the PRIME DIRECTIVE should always be in place here in this WORLD there should be no outside or alien intervention in the growth and processes of the games economy. Just like nixing bots and gold sellers as they do now, I wouldn't think Anet would ever even consider implementing this in the game unless they made a specific server for it like Everquest 2 did.

Last edited by Master Knightfall; Apr 20, 2008 at 11:41 AM // 11:41..
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 11:37 AM // 11:37   #255
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Reality check !

Go to google type "gw+ingame gold" voila u have OMG web sites that sellin it !!!

Who farms that gold ???

I`m certain of one thing NOT PEOPLE WHO LIKE THE GAME !

How they farm GOLD ???

Usualy by bot`s and a large number of them !!!

Why Anet doesn`t prevent usage of bot`s ???

I`m shure they would like to do it but CAN`T DO IT THAT EASY !!!

Who get`s banned ???

People like OP, people that don`t have TIME to be online for 6-7 hrs a day !!!

Why ???

Propably for wanting to max something that Anet put in game with RIDICULOUS amout platinum needed !!!

Wanna get rid of the bot`s, and web sites that SELL GOLD ???

U start to do it LEGIT over IN GAME STORE !!!!

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Somebody stated for OP that he should LEAVE game, WRONG he is costumer like everyone else, and he actualy want`s to give his MONEY to the SOURCE - creators of the THE GAME! Not some black market dealer God knows where !!
I personaly liked the statement somebody made here again to the ever flamed OP (about him leaving wouldn`t hurt Anet because he already PAID his game) i can say that for everyone who would decide to leave if Anet started selling Gold IN GAME !!!

Maybe then we would have less LAG on servers, and don`t get me wrong i have time i spend 4-6 hrs a day online i wouldn`t buy gold anyway but i think it should be allowed to people who don`t have that time to invest !!!
It wouldn`t make things worst then they are right about now !!!
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 11:38 AM // 11:38   #256
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Sorry for one post right after another but I had an idea that could help those wishing to use real world money to increase their GW income while (perhaps ?) limiting the impact on the GW economy.

Introduce new minipets, items, etc that can only be purchased for real world money.

By purchasing these items (priced in such a way as to create some degree of rarity without getting too ridiculous) you could have a commodity with (potentially) real purchasing power in the game. The addition of a new minipet might have a minor impact on the value of pre-existing ones but not to the degree of allowing you to purchase those with real world money.

This would not actually add currency to the GW economy but would rather add a means of redistribution of current GW gold stockpiles from the very wealthy (in game) to the less (in game) affluent.

Honestly I havent thought this idea through completely and I am sure that there are flaws and draw-backs that I just havent seen as of yet, but...there it is.
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 11:39 AM // 11:39   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AshenX
The examples you give will have a good chance of controlling the severity of inflation caused by selling gold but will not in fact eliminate the inflation. By the very nature of what you are discussing Anet would be adding gold to the market without necessarily taking anything out. Gold would become more plentiful and so worth less in the GW economy.

The basic approach being suggested here is one that has been tried in the real world with disastrous results...We don't have enough money to pay our bills ? Just print more !

Attempts to control the fall-out from the implementation of this suggestion will (most likely) run afoul of a couple of problems:

1) where do you draw the line ? If the goal is to create an absolutely fair situation by allowing someone who doesn't have the time to farm for gold to purchase the gold from Anet while keeping the cost of the gold up to (hopefully) minimize the impact on the economy then what about those without much time or sufficient real world money to afford high gold prices. If fairness is in fact an argument for gold selling then the prices would have to be kept low in order for it to be achieved. If gold prices are low then any attempt to control inflation will fail.

2) Not only those without sufficient time to farm will buy gold if it becomes "legal". Farmers will likely find prices going up enough to warrant at least an occasional gold purchase themselves. If they are already farming as much as the can or are willing to to achieve the levels of income they desire then the devaluation of their current stocks of cash will drive them into the gold purchasing market as well.

3) Reducing the value of something that another has worked very hard for is actually less fair than saying that you have to spend alot of time farming in order to get a particular item in game. If you increase the amount of gold on the market then the gold already on the marked is devalued. In other words everything that the farming community has worked hard for will actually be worth less. They will be able to buy less with the gold and ectos that they have applied countless hours and ingenuity to acquire. In my opinion it is far less fair to take from them than to say that you should have work as hard (or put in as much time) as they did in order to have the same reward.

Please note that we are speaking about in game situations and so I am referring to in game work (or time) and am not at all deriding the real world work you do to accumulate the real world money which you wish to spend on GW gold.
1. The point for expensive gold is not to make things fair. It is to make ANet lots of money and to foster a highly capitalistic society. If you cannot afford the gold, you do not buy it. Real world analogy: I cannot afford a Prius, I do not buy one. What do the people do who can't afford the gold? Probably the same thing they're doing now, waste their time farming the same spots over and over again.

2.Possibly, that's all conjecture. And even if farmers do go into the buying market, they have to be able to afford it with real world money. Chances are if they're farming, they don't have a lot of real world money to begin with (I'm talking hard core farmers here, not the couple hour a night farmers). Couple hour a night farmers will see some devaluation as will everyone, but (real world analogy) much like ITunes, people will pay money to avoid doing something illegal. If you don't give them an option they will "steal" it. It comes down to this, if you can correctly control the money flow into the game (and believe me they are already watching this closely) you CAN put a cap on inflation.

3. I don't have an answer to this one. Basically your saying people's feelings will be hurt because something that they spent a lot of time and energy on is now readily available. You need to give them a consolation prize, give them a magic marker and let them color their FoW armor or something. Real world analogy: IPhone came out. $500. Two months later dropped the price $100. What did they do? Consolation prize, here is your $100 gift certificate, come in and buy some more stuff from us.

You have excellent points. But nothing you've mentioned can't be overcome with one FTE at ANet.

Last edited by ModTerrik; Apr 20, 2008 at 11:41 AM // 11:41..
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 11:43 AM // 11:43   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AshenX
Sorry for one post right after another but I had an idea that could help those wishing to use real world money to increase their GW income while (perhaps ?) limiting the impact on the GW economy.

Introduce new minipets, items, etc that can only be purchased for real world money.

By purchasing these items (priced in such a way as to create some degree of rarity without getting too ridiculous) you could have a commodity with (potentially) real purchasing power in the game. The addition of a new minipet might have a minor impact on the value of pre-existing ones but not to the degree of allowing you to purchase those with real world money.

This would not actually add currency to the GW economy but would rather add a means of redistribution of current GW gold stockpiles from the very wealthy (in game) to the less (in game) affluent.

Honestly I havent thought this idea through completely and I am sure that there are flaws and draw-backs that I just havent seen as of yet, but...there it is.
I like this idea too. So many ways to make this more readily available to the time handicapped.
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 11:48 AM // 11:48   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnidragon42
The main problem is that you're trying to achieve "Fairness". Nothing is fair. GW is a game where item acquisition is determined by ingame effort. Real life is a game where item acquisition is determined by working at a job or exploiting the welfare system. If I could acquire a $500,000 house by spending say, 5 mil ingame, would that be fair to people who take 30 year mortgages to buy one?
I couldn't agree more on the fairness. Screw you Mr. Time Farmer open the Banks of Tyria to the almighty dollar and release the Dogs of war!

Oh, and if you could buy a $500,000 house for 5m of GW money, you should take that offer. And no, I wouldn't be upset about it unless it devalues my houses value. So how could I mitigate this? Only allow players to buy houses with Guild wars Money once a month etc. Once again, ways to work it out.
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Old Apr 20, 2008, 11:49 AM // 11:49   #260
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
GW would turn into Rich > Skill, Time rather than supposed Skill > Time.

My idea of where money ends up in an economy is in the hands of those who know how to use it well, which usually end up being the wealthy or the hoarders, and you're wanting to spend it, so I bet you're no hoarder. The only reason people would buy it is to spend it, and if they're spending it, it's going to end up in the hands of the already wealthy, and just destroy the economy more.

Plus, that's like GW saying, "We didn't like other people making money by selling in-game gold, so we decided to ban them all and do it ourselves!"
Yes. Much like the MP3 industry.
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